KB: After various attempts, all more or less fruitful, to make your own model with the assistance of French manufacturers, you returned to a Gretsch drum kit. What was your approach?
CV: That happened by chance. When Magma went to New York, my prototype drum kit was in the rehearsal studio; it had to be sent on by ship. As it did not arrive, Elvin Jones obtained a small Gretsch for me in its place. By a stroke of luck it was well built! Finally, I could not dismantle the kit. In the end I kept the Gretsch and came back to Paris, passing through customs with the toms under my arm.
KB: What became of the metallic prototype constructed by Asba to your specifications?
CV: I did not play it a lot after that, principally because of the weight of the clips, the constructor was obliged to consolidate the general structure with some interior reinforcements, this "puffed out" and certainly caused bad resonances. It was a redoubtable drum kit of some bearing and the principle remains good, above all in the relationship of the sizes, but I was not completely satisfied with the overall result.
CV: The basic idea is of a more sophisticated tam-tam. The sound needs to have a very dense body; it needs to be compressed, savage, cutting and staying precise.
KB: Where does the clear snare, which you play, come from? Is it a unique model?
CV: Practically. Billy Cobham had a prototype made for him some years back by an instrument maker in New York, Inger, who has since died, and I followed his example. This artisan was a constructor of percussion instruments for symphony orchestras and he made these snares by hand - a little like Deslaurier in Paris, who continues to make his exercise drum sticks in ebony, one by one. This type of instrument is magical, it is necessary, and in fact indispensable to put all your love in this skill, otherwise it is impossible to continue to fabricate them in the manner of an artisan.
KB: There are "Christian Vander" drum sticks. You're not satisfied with them, what are they like?
CV: To begin with they were like a Rim Shot B, but as time went by, and without asking me, the model was changed but kept my name. I actually play with the "Major Ceccarelli" (because my own model does not suit me anymore); I think that this is the best drumstick one can find in France. However, I used to perform with some gilded hickory Gretsch sticks: when they are well balanced you have the impression of having nothing in your hands, the weight being spread in the body. The other day, to illustrate this point about the level of the weight, I was choosing between two fishing rods, the shopkeeper affirmed to me: "They are strictly the same, sir", but I found that one was slightly heavier than the other. Despite them being seven metres long, weighing them in one hand I was able to feel a difference. I insisted, and after verification it turned out that the "heavier one" was actually longer by a few millimetres. I had sensed the extra grammes.
KB: How is your kit made up?
CV: It's quite disparate. The casks are of course Gretsch, with Slingerland fasteners and a snare by Inger (except in a club I prefer to use a Gretsch). The bass drum pedal is a Cameo, now produced by Tama, and that of the Charleston is a Capelle (ex-Orange) with the Asba "tilter". Asba, are the only ones to keep the cymbal truly on the rod - besides, they've been the same since 1970. Very important: one time when I'd finished my adjustments, I chopped off the top of the rod, because it bothered me when playing passages on the cymbals; playing quite low, I clearly did not need the stem to be any longer. When it was installed on the riser, I found that it did not sit firmly on the ground, that it was less stable. It's not a question of the height of the drummer, since Elvin (Jones) and Billy Cobham play low despite their size, Tony Williams and Ceccarelli too. When I started, I played high because I had the impression that I played better; from a fear of being overtaken by the drum kit, psychologically I wanted to dominate, therefore I had the impression of being as big as my childhood friend Elvin (who, even when seated on the floor, overwhelmed the drums). Finally, I perceived that the more I was stabilizing, as much in tempo as in style, the lower I was sitting. Today I play very low, and I should eventually be able to take my Ludwig seat down another notch. Currently I am on the third hole and that suits me well if I want to perform in an agile "dancing" manner; otherwise, I'm stabilizing too much and obstructing my movements by balancing.
KB: On that subject, there are three remarkable aspects in your way of playing: First you are seated, balancing on two of the three feet of your chair, next you rarely lay your heels on the pedals, and finally the extremely upright positioning of your spine makes your vertebrae column a pivot for each of your movements, the opposite of most drummers who are usually "hunched over".
CV: I have always played with my heels effectively raised, because I sensed that I was able to perform a lot more strongly in that manner. When you start, you are told to perform with your feet flat on the floor. Finally, on the job, when you really need to perform, I lifted my foot, struck the drums and then I had the sound. With this method I have developed the suppleness in my ankle, as for a wrist. In fact, my position on the drum seat is completely in balance yet "unstable".
KB: What type of cymbals do you use?
CV: Generally I play on thick cymbals, cymbals for harmony. Sadly, these are getting increasingly rare. They are hand-made by true artists, signed, with each one having its own bell form and tone. Those by K. Zildjian were so good that I still own a broken one, I had the break repaired and it still rings as it did on the first day! I recently discovered something, amongst others, that the sound can be clearly heard when struck with the hand, for the first ten minutes of playing, the cymbal has its original ring, then little by little the sound hollows out and changes, if one listens at the end of a hall, each blow sounds different. For example: I give one last crash, and apart from the blow itself I can hear three different sounds, a malleable quality. At the limit, it is possible to play on a heap of mud and to find a sound from that. You need to warm up the cymbal in a way that will preserve the tone. In concert I have some Paiste Charlestons, which are very precise in their level of strength, but they are lacking a little in musicality. In a club I play more on the Zildjians or the UFIPs, but the latter are not quite powerful enough, they are a little "cotton woolly". Both possess quite an attack for starting to play at a relatively high level: but in concert, it's insufficient. I use the Chinese ones, Wuang China: imported from Holland but made in China, they are enormous and very thick, veritable cauldrons. In fact, my cymbal style is based on a set of Zildjians, with several external contributions for the effects; I change the cymbals according to the concert, the hail and its resonance. For Magma, I take powerful models, but sadly the sound of the drums does not just depend on me, but also on the p.a. system, however in a club I am in complete control. I entrust in the precision and the power of the cymbal. For the "crash", it's better to take a specialised cymbal. On the other hand, apart from the crash and the Chinese ones, I consider the small cymbals, the bells, the "minis" and other gadgets in the percussive domain: I think that these sounds are not integral with the drums. When one is in the whirlwind of toms and cymbals, if a sound of this sort arrives it remains foreign, as if another musician was playing on another instrument.
On the other hand, it's very agreeable if I continue to play the tempo on a cymbal; that has to be accompanied, not solo. When Steve Gadd plays tight, he integrates other instruments with his set, this is very nice, the sound of the drums is well wrapped, but when he opens up, and this is when the hell begins, he no longer masters the sound, the bass drum is not balanced with the tom and the cymbals are crushed, He does not play loud, the level is below the normal limit for playing drums and if one wants to rise to a higher level and keep the sound, one should get another drummer...
KB: When you make the demos that you use to compose with, how do you go about it?
CV: The tape serves me as a score. I record while looking for the climate, I search for a good balance between my voice and the piano, but I am not trying to find "a sound": I simply regain my climate on the tape. To compose it's necessary for me to be in a trance, I merge myself into the piano, and become part of it. In an hour of delirium, there are certainly some moments where I'm released after achieving the "take" and I come back to earth. Sometimes I compose a piece entirely in this manner, in improvisation, but occasionally it needs months to rebuild the vague intermediary sequences. I never think of the drums when I compose. Except for a solo that I have "composed", that does not interest me. I always try to find the opening, a little like Elvin Jones and Al Jackson, the deceased drummer with Booker T. This opening corresponds to the moment when the drums become something other than an accompanying instrument, when they overtake the boundaries and transport the music into another dimension.