More
than 13 years at the summit of European music with groups such as Univers Zero
and Present, Daniel Denis - inspired drummer and composer - amply deserves our
attention. We hereby deliver, with an interview that he gave us upon release
of 'Sirius and the Ghosts', the first compact disc out under his own name.
AJ: What was your first contact with music?
DD: At the playground, I'm sure - I recall playing with a drum.
AJ: Do you come from a family of musicians? Did you learn music at school: In a conservatory, or are you self-taught?
DD: When I was around eleven, one of my older brothers bought a drum set (or something that passed for one). He started playing in a little group with my other brother (who left the group pretty fast). He was self-taught, and as I watched his technique evolve over the, I became eager to play the instrument myself. I learned a great deal just by watching. Around age fourteen or fifteen, I went out with him on a gig and he let me play the drums for one or two numbers in front of the crowd - it was great "schooling" for me. But it was actually in 1967, when the music of Hendrix and Pink Floyd and Syd Barrett was discovered, that it all really started (as I disconnected from school more and more). I began to have a little technique. I let the recordings of Hendrix and Cream act as the foundation, and I built my music on top of that. I was obsessed with the style of Mitch Mitchell, Hendrix's drummer, who was and remains one of my favourites.
AJ: Do you play other instruments?
DD: There came a moment when it bothered me that I could only play the drums. I had ideas in my head for pieces; so I started to play the piano and to compose, always self-taught. I play a little bass too, but without having pushed the technique much.
AJ: How do you explain the originality of your style of drumming?
DD: I have always been concerned to fuse the drum with the totality of the music. Not just to get the rhythm right, but by control of the different tones and timbres of the drum, to follow and reinforce the thematic developments in the music - somewhat in the spirit of orchestral percussion. It was with Univers Zero that I worked the most like that, but actually with my CD I took great care to separate this notion of drum-percussion from "the drums" properly speaking. If you are a drummer and you get the opportunity to play another instrument, you grasp a whole new conception of the role the drum can play, I think. That's what happened to me, when I began to play piano and compose.
AJ: Who are the drummers you admire?
DD: As I said, I admire the work and the inventiveness of Mitch Mitchell, who is a famous example of fusion percussion; the very intelligent and refined style of Michael Giles with King Crimson, Tony Williams and Christian Vander, of course, who is of the same calibre. John French, who was the chief drummer for Beefheart, is fantastically original, as is Wyatt, equally. Finally the playing of Vinnie Colaiuta has also impressed me greatly.
AJ: What was your musical pathway up to the birth of Univers Zero?
DD: I bought my first set of drums in 1968, and I played through '69 with two groups that were doing retakes of pieces by Cream, Hendrix, Nice, etc. In 1970, I met Jean-Luc Manderlier, and we decided to form a group influenced by Soft Machine. That's how we formed the trio Arkham. It was my first experience of music that was truly interesting and enriching. I learned an enormous amount from playing with Jean-Luc. He composed fantastic pieces, in spite of the strong and obvious influence of "Soft". For me it was the first experience of uneven rhythm, of bizarre harmonies and of the "post-atomic" mood.
In 1971 we were the opening act for the first or second concert by Magma in Belgium. The connection was immediate. They were enthusiastic about signing us up (that was a rare thing for them). It was a little later that Christian Vander asked Jean-Luc and me to become part of Magma. His idea was to enlarge the group but when I played two or three "Mekanīk" concerts as second drummer, the experience, as interesting as it was, was maybe a little too brief to be conclusive. I didn't sense the possibility of finding my place and being able to express myself sufficiently. Jean-Luc stayed a year. I went back to Belgium. Arkham broke up, and I was on the point of beginning all over. At that moment, I made contact again with Claude Deron, the trumpeter who played at the heart of Arkham just before its dissolution. We asked Roger Trigaux and Guy Segers (they already played together when working in the same studio as Arkham) to join up with us. It was 1973. The group called itself Necronomicon, then Univers Zero in '74.
AJ: How did Univers Zero work! Were you the leader or was it really a case of teamwork?
DD: Around the beginning of Univers Zero in '74/75, the work was more collective, in the sense that one person would bring a theme, the sense of mood for a piece, or an overall idea for a piece. We would put our ideas together and thus we would construct the pieces. That sometimes led to pieces that were a little too chaotic or fragmented. Little by little, some of us began to have more precise ideas about the structure and spirit of the pieces. That's how Univers Zero came to be oriented towards the music on the first recordings that you know. It goes without saying that certain problems were created with respect to the identity of certain musicians. The evolution of the music of Univers Zero entailed growing in a particular direction and became more and more distinctive. The function of leader came upon me somewhat inevitably as in the course of the I became the principal composer.
AJ: Does the fact that you have put out a recording under your own name imply the end of Univers Zero - or is it simply a different venue?
DD: The cessation of Univers Zero in '86 was a voluntary choice. I had assumed all the financial costs and responsibilities of the group. I also had the job of gathering the musicians together for rehearsals. At the the, also there was a sort of dispersion of spirit at the heart of Univers Zero - an obvious lack of cohesion, not to mention that our concerts were too few and far between and that there wasn't enough money to take care of things. I'd had it.
Somewhere in there (at least two years later) there was in the air a project where Guy (Segers), Roger (Trigaux), Andy (Kirk) and I had the idea to each do a piece on a recording under the name of Univers Zero. The project would have been possible if the financial means had been there - but it stayed at the stage of an idea for a reunion, and it never was realized.
AJ: If the page is turned on Univers Zero, what is now your judgment now on all that period?
DD: It was a fantastic experience. When
we did 'Ceux du Dehors' we were very concentrated. That was bound to lead to
a very fertile creation. Each one of us truly put his energies in the service
of the group. It would be very difficult, probably impossible, to work again
in that same spirit. We would have needed some kind of response from people
outside ourselves that could propel us out of the sterile circuit we were in.
To work always with the same intensity, without a "return" in proportion to
what our work cost us in energy - that took too much out of some of us, who
became discouraged and quit the group. In any case, the group had broken up
a good number of times. It was an eternal rebirth. Also at that the we were
determined to defend against any action that would directly harm the music itself.
We insisted on complete control over everything we thought essential and important
for the health of the group, but that obligated us also to take attitudes that
seemed a little too extreme or categorical.
With hindsight I think that that (insistence of ours on control) contributed
also to the closing of certain doors.
AJ: In retrospect what is your favourite album by Univers Zero?
DD: Even if the production of each record wasn't always exactly as I wanted it, I can say that each recording possesses its own strength and its status as an "event". Each one is important to me. We took great care that each recording should have its level of energy and its potential for emotion - and in an omnipresent manner, in each case.
AJ: At the same the as you worked with Univers Zero, you played with the group Present. Can you speak a little about that experience?
DD: It was interesting for me to work with Present because I didn't have the worry of composing or of bringing the group together. That allowed me to concentrate only on the drum part. Roger and I had known each other a long the. He allowed me total liberty to "place" the drum on the music as I thought best. I had always before had to create the drum part in relation to the whole piece that I myself had composed and in relation to the pieces of the other musicians. I should say that right now I rarely leave the drums to compose.
AJ: After all these experiences with interesting groups (Univers Zero, Present) why have you chosen to work henceforth under your own name? Is it a personal choice, or one you have been pushed into?
DD: Many factors have pushed me to this choice. After the dissolution of Univers Zero, the logical step was that I should take the the necessary to weigh all the past experiences and to have the liberty to reflect at my ease without the constraints of an operating group. The choice to work under my own name obviously allows me to experiment with new orientations, with the privilege to explore my musical ideas to the limit. This is possible thanks to the help of Didier De Roos (the sound engineer of 'Uzed' and 'Heatwave' who truly caught onto the music of Univers Zero), who proposed to me to work in co-production on my future projects such as the current CD. He has his own studio now since the beginning of 1990. Because of that he can bring me all the complementary technique and "savoir-faire" which is necessary to my music. It is the first the that I am not subject to stress when I work in a studio. Besides, I began to find it a little frustrating to have my name as composer overshadowed by that of Univers Zero, especially when I had become the principal composer of the group.
AJ: How would you situate the music of this first album under your own name, in relation to the music of Univers Zero?
DD: One could say that the music of my CD is the continuation of what I composed for Univers Zero. I couldn't in any case create pieces in a contrary direction to what I feel. The techniques and the immense diversity of sound that I now have at my disposition permit me to go further without altering the essential bases and fundamentals of my music. If one wanted to distil my current work, one could find there the same ingredients, the fundamental materials as before. That is to say that right now I have the firm intention to explore singing, or other things I haven't been able yet to truly exploit.
AJ: What are the new elements that appear in your music?
DD: One of the new contributions is the
use of the computer, not for the creation of the music but for its modulation
in the smallest details. It is another way of working. If one uses a certain
prudence and proceeds advisedly, it is a fantastic tool for realizing the performance.
The search for the right sound is necessarily more aggressive than before with
the introduction of elements such as the sampler.
In any case, the contribution of Didier to the work is altogether remarkable.
The work of putting together a CD is the work of a long breath. I do it by using
the whole keyboard. In terms of instrumentation, there are certain pieces with
clarinet, bass clarinet, and sax played by Dirk (Descheemaeker) on the bass
and a little violincello (Jan Kuijken). They produced something fantastic.
AJ: What is the structure of your pieces? Short cuts or long pieces?
DD: For the CD, I have tried not to include cuts that are too long - none more than ten minutes (there are six titles). In any case, these pieces did not require extensive development. It was also necessary to think about how these cuts would be aired; it is always frustrating to have to cut the piece in two because of its length.
AJ: In terms of listening, is your music more accessible than that of Univers Zero?
DD: It's always difficult to locate the borderline between what is accessible and what is not. I have always found that this music has a certain dose of accessibility, if only for example through the multitude of images that it seems to evoke for the listener; that should help make the connection with what lies behind. Obviously, that depends a lot on the listener. It is a question of openness and of receptivity. Technically, the music of the CD is better produced than previously. Is that a criterion of accessibility?
AJ: 'Sirius And The Ghosts' - why this title for the album?
DD: "Sirius"
could be a name from a fair or a circus - a fantastical, fantomatico-circus
- the atmosphere of which is reflected in the cut of the same name on the CD.
'Sirius And The Ghosts' could be the title of a novel by Jean Roy. The photo
of the horse on the jacket reflects this idea.
AJ: What label will 'Sirius' come out under?
DD: I don't know who will release it or
distribute it in Europe. All that remains to be arranged. I've disconnected
myself from that part of things: it's always painful for me to see the indifference
and the absence of mutual aid between musicians or "professionals". Efficient
distribution is always a huge problem to resolve. I've known that for ages.
There's unfortunately a strict correlation between distribution and live exposure:
poor distribution = no concerts. In the states, it will be Cuneiform. That'll
make now several years working with Steven Feigenbaum - with whom I've sometimes
had a problem about the excessive prudence of his work and the limits on the
size of his distribution.
AJ: Do you plan concerts after the release of the album? If so, in what form and with which musicians?
DD: First I want to get the promotion and distribution of the CD taken care of. The ideal thing would have been to shunt right out on a tour upon the release of the album, but since I'm setting out again from point zero, in a sense, it would have been difficult to arrange everything. The CD will be in any case a precious tool for the prospecting of future concerts that I plan for the autumn of '91 (I hope!). Anyhow, I want to take the the necessary to think about it, and to find motivated musicians (there's already Jan Kuijken who has agreed to be part of my next group) who won't be content only to execute the music. I would love to develop a concept for a concert that would surpass by several echelons what Univers Zero could give at the top of its form. I'll take this opportunity to advertise that I am looking for a keyboard player and a bass player of top quality.
AJ: What do you see in the future for Daniel Denis?
DD: Being able to buy a new pair of shoes!