When Andy Garibaldi interviewed Klaus ('Ork Alarm! #10 & #11), he covered a large part of the story from 1969 to 1980. Thierry asked about the graphic art side of his career in OA #20. Since Klaus has his new Magma book project in his computer, let's fill in some of the gaps, those mysterious missing links. It would be very intriguing if he could tell us some exotic stories about Magma as well....
PM: You were in a band called STUFF before you met Christian in 1969?
KB: Yes, first there was BLUES MAKERS then BLUES CONVENTION then Richard Pinhas and I left Blues Convention and we both joined STUFF. I first actually met Christian and Zabu at a studio on the 25th of July 1969. I may have seen him that spring, but I'm not sure. I remember we had just arrived with STUFF; they were late of course... We could hear them from upstairs, but when we arrived to set up to rehearse it was a one-room studio so we waited in the same room for them to finish. I was so impressed, they had no p.a. system, I saw this guy with a blue shirt, which was as wet as hell and he had such a small drum. Our drummer was terrible, no rebound, no swing, nothing. This guy impressed me but the rest of the band were terrible, Laurent Thibault, Zabu and I think Francis Moze was on organ. I have this image of Christian, very clean but in a tight shirt soaked in sweat, and tight pants. He was clean and unfashionable at that time. I also met René Morizur (the saxophonist who used to be with Johnny Halliday) he was in the first band before Magma, you know MAGMA COMPOSEDRA ARGUEZDRA. The Stuff band split up, then in September Claude Engel took me to the pre-Magma band rehearsal at Les Studio Pathé Marconi in Pont de Sévres near Paris. I met Christian again; they recorded a session (which we hear may come out on an AKT CD - Ed.). I was not in the band then, but that was the real beginning. I saw what I was looking for, people doing modern things not stupid Rock'n'Roll things.
PM: Do you recall the album Gilles Elbaz and Siegfried Kessler recorded with some of Magma in 1972? Were you involved and who were the musicians?
KB: Giles Elbaz? We should ask the machine (Klaus interrogates his computer). '72? It sounds familiar; we also recorded with Eddy Mitchell very early in the Magma story ('Zig Zag' by Eddy Mitchell, March 1972 - Ed.). I remember we took this picture for a magazine. It was a session where we were not paid as Magma, but as a band of musicians who played together. Anyway, let's search for Elbaz, no it's not here, in '72 we did some TV sessions and I was working on the book about Kobaïa.
PM: What happened to that book?
KB: It was never finished; I was supposed to leave the band at that time (laughs).
PM: Looking at your agenda for 1972, I'm surprised that there were so many TV appearances. Do you or Christian have any of these on tape?
KB: No, not on video.
(Klaus continued to search through his Macintosh computer for interesting anecdotes concerning 1972).KB: We signed the contract with Kigali (set up by Giorgio Gomelsky after months of "floating" association with Magma) and then we were trapped. All the money went to him and never came back (laughs). We had an Australian roadie called Peter who I remember was tall and he would eat all the food off the table, he was very nice but a strain because of all the beer he'd drink. We did a session with Barre Phillips trying out for time band.
PM: What happened in Bilzen on August the 19th, 1972?
KB: Ah, the infamous Bilzen gig, a big festival in Belgium where Christian was hit by the road manager of STREAK, a British band. He had to have surgery (Klaus indicated a broken cheek bone - Ed.). We had been playing for fifteen minutes then everything stopped. It all began with an argument we had with the organisers, we were supposed to play at 17h00, but when the time came there were still three bands to play. So we decided not to play at all. They were a little upset because we were more famous in Belgium than Streak. But Streak were supposed to be "the stars" and playing after us, because they were British, clever and organised, and we weren't. So we had decided not to play because the organisation was a mess, and then the organisers decided to switch the bands around - a big mistake. So we played after all. Then while Christian was playing, a guy from Streak came up with a big ring on his finger and thumped him. It was like being hit with a hammer, could you imagine? While playing! Then Loulou, our road manager who is a big guy, threw him ten metres into the audience. Their road manager ended up in hospital.
PM: Between 1972 and 1973, did Magma play concerts with an orchestra? I have a cheesy cassette where it sounds like the orchestra are playing 'Carmina Burana' along with the band performing part of 'Mekanïk'. Can you tell us about that period?
KB: No way! We did play with a classical choir, but never with a symphony orchestra. The conductor was a very nice guy, in between these three worlds of Rock'n'Roll, Jazz and Classical. I think he put the choir on especially for the occasion because we had to decide which one was able to do the thing, and even then it was not sufficient. It was a very heavy thing to carry. Every bar was a fight; just listen to the demo ('Mekanïk Kommandöh' Seventh VI Z). We did not use the choir for 'MDK', I did the choir parts for that with the girls, because we had this problem. It is very common with French musicians, that they are not able to work together as a team. So it does not sound like a band, it sounds like musicians who have just been put together to sing.
PM: I thought perhaps the problem was that they could not pronounce the Kobaïan language.
KB: No, the main problem was rhythm and then the sound. Because we needed a choir that sounded like a choir - not a pile of musicians; French amateurs. So it was nice for a demo and for the two concerts that we did in Bordeaux (I think), but not enough for us to bring all this to England. And I think it sounds more like a choir with Christian, Stella and I, rather than the original choir. I don't remember the exact number of singers; there were more than twenty-five for sure, but less than fifty.
PM: It was better with just Stella and yourself.
KB: Much better, because we were used to sounding like a choir, just taking the most essential parts and making it sound choral. Sometimes on stage I sang the old parts like 'Mekanïk' all the way through on my own, because Stella was not there all the time and Christian was playing drums, except for a few bars. So that's how I was obliged to learn how to sound like a choir. Furthermore the band's style of playing was changed, instead of just playing their instruments they were playing like an orchestra - it was quite new. For Janik and Mickey all the parts were massive, heavy and essential. That's why we had two keyboards at the time, so many parts to play.
PM: Can you tell us about the UK tours? I remember the first time you were at the Marquee in '73, you did not sit in the dressing room before the gig. You sat next to the stage, almost amongst the audience.
KB: Maybe because it was so small. I have some special memories of this tour, the people we met in the UK were nice people, nice musicians and also there was a live recording of 'Mekanïk' on the Rolling Stone Mobile... No that was later in '75 at the Roundhouse, we played so many times at the Roundhouse I know it by heart. I remember in '74 at the Marquee, the ambience in the dressing room was like a garbage can with writing and drawings on the wall, and I remember not feeling very good. Then when we were on stage Christian played too loud and Janik turned his amp up to maximum volume. It was like a musical fight, it was like an earthquake. But the audience loved it because the music was great, and the sound! You can imagine! I had very little fold back and I was used to not being able to hear myself.
PM: That 1974 line-up had a terrific sound.
KB: Yeah, and all the guys involved will remember well the last concert we did with Janik, Gerard, Christian and me in Colmar. And Gorutz (Gabriel Federow) was playing in the support band that day, in a strange jazz trio - he remembers too. Janik was playing all the cello parts on bass because there was only one keyboard and it was not a synthesizer, it was just a Fender Rhodes. Can you imagine? Just five fingers on each hand, playing a million parts (Klaus then hums the tunes). I'm learning how to play Janik's parts on bass, it's terrible just twisting your fingers, because he also used a different type of tuning and everything is so strange. This is the strongest memory I have of a concert, which was supposed to be hard to play... I can go on forever.
PM: By the way, what is the correct spelling of "Jannick"?
KB: J-A-N-I-K.
PM: Do you know anything about a live solo album by Janik Top, which was supposedly recorded in 1975?
KB: It's funny you should ask. It was supposed to be released, but I was not in the band. They were called UTOPIC SPORADIC ORCHESTRA and yesterday I saw the guy who was responsible for the sound for their three rehearsals and the concert in Nancy. I had to test some p.a. systems at Alain Francais' company yesterday and he surprised me with a tape of the show (Klaus hums the introduction to 'De Futura Hiroshima'). I said, "Ah, I know what that is". But I was not there, I was not invited, there was something strange between me and Janik as usual. I was the only one in Magma who was not playing in this band.
PM: Was that their only concert? I know someone who claims to have a test pressing of something like this.
KB: Only one concert, but it was recorded. They played the same tune three times, perhaps because of sound problems. Alain told me they played for maybe seventeen minutes, then the people asked for more so they played it a second time. Then for an encore they played it a third time. If a white label exists it is a bootleg. It was never mixed, although we expected it to be done. I'm not even sure that there are multi-track tapes.
PM: Did Magma record anything in the studio that was not released?
KB: No, not very much. There were a lot of demos and concerts of course.
PM: No complete albums? I'm thinking of 'Ëmëhntëht-Rê', a 3LP set that Christian spoke about in 1976.
KB: No, generally it was too expensive to record. But there are most definitely tapes at Christian's house, which were never released. Either rehearsal tapes, or just demos of Christian on piano and voice. There are thousands of hours of these. And he has to make the decision whether to release them. I know the music of 'Ëmëhntëht-Rê' but I don't know what's on the tapes, or even the concept of the records. Perhaps it was ten pieces or elements. It was all just an idea. Sometimes it's just a question of talking, and he does what he says, but it's not always possible. As I used to say about my solo album - it's on tape but there is no definite form. Unless I'm convinced it is time to release something I'm not going to work on it, I have so many things to do. But if something happens I'm always ready.
PM: That would mean the only studio track still to be released on CD is 'Mekanïk Machine'.
KB: Yes, but we are looking for radio shows like the BBC and Radio Bremen ones, I can't speak for Christian, but I'm quite interested in tracing this kind of recording. Because I'm sure there are surprises, tunes never recorded and now forgotten. And even Musicians too, for example Jean-Pierre Lambert and Jean-Luc Chevalier played with the band for quite a while and they didn't record a lot.
PM: I remember that the way you used to sing 'Köhntarkösz' in '74 was very different to the album version. For example you used to sing "Hallelujah" a lot at the beginning or sometimes the end.
KB: Yes it was quite different when 'Köhntarkösz' was new. There were different versions; we re-arranged it a lot. And also without preparing anything, things happened on stage, especially with Janik and Christian together, we were never sure what was happening.
PM: You did some artwork for the 'Ptäh' album project, were there any drawings for 'Ëmëhntëht-Rê'?
KB: Yes I had sketches and drawings; the main idea was of a big hand with two thumbs, flying towards you. The hand of Ptäh (pronounced TAH! -Ed.). The design for the back cover of 'Ptäh' was a sacrophage in space, a rock coffin for Ëmëhntëht-Rê floating in space. It was a big, engraved stone with Egyptian symbols and everything. In place of the sun was Magma's logo. The front cover was an ancient stone monolith, with a grey-greenish tone, with stars in the background. It was photographed at the final mock-up stage. The originals were destroyed or disappeared somewhere in New York, as were tile Üdü Wüdü drawings!
PM: It seems like Magma fell apart in 1979, then you returned for the Retrospektïw gigs. Then you left the band, we know why you left and how disappointed you were at the time, but thinking back now, do you regret leaving?
KB: No I don't regret it because it was going down and down. I was not the only reason why the band was not okay. It was not like it was before, so I decided to stay for a while to help, but not for pleasure because it was a mess, organisational hell. The band composition was not good and also I had money problems. I was involved in various projects and I was in a serious situation, so continuing to take risks like that was ridiculous. I'm still ready to take chances but I have some experience now, I know how many chances I can take and what results I can expect. If it doesn't balance completely I may take the chance, but if it's like the things I have learned for years... We have an expression in France "A scalded cat is frightened by boiling water". So now when I see people putting their hands in boiling water, I say, "don't do that!" So I won't do it again unless I have to save somebody. I knew at the time it was not necessary to continue with this experience. I stayed for twelve years, it was all right - I think. I left in 1980 and I came back for the Retrospektïw just because Christian called me for three or four hours a day and sometimes in the middle of the night. "Klaus you can't do that, you should leave with prestige." Imagine; I was sure it would be a mess, I would not get paid enough, I would have to organise everything. Why!? Eventually I said yes and it was a mess and then I wasn't paid. It was for the same reason as I said before; because this guy put his hand in the boiling water, so I had to pay for him to go to the hospital. That was the last time I was trapped.
PM: You returned as a guest for the 'MERCI' album, what do you think of that album?
KB: Well, I don't like it at all, but I was gone for two or three years, I lived in Los Angeles for a while and came back and forth. I was still involved in the ODEURS band who recorded at the Ramses studio. I'd got off the plane and went to Ramses and going down the stairs to the studio I met the jazz-rock-blues guitar player Jean-Michel Kajdan and he said to me "Hello Klaus, I'm going to an audition for Christian's next album, right now." So I said "Wait for me one minute, until I've done my bit and then I'll come to the studio with you." His audition took five hours, he was playing bass, not guitar. Then he tried guitar parts, I don't think it worked too well. But Christian took me to one side with Stella and said, "Would you like to sing on this? I'd like you to hear every tune we have made...." Okay, so it got to midnight, three hours later and he was saying, "Listen to this," "Where is the tape?" "Where's the right version?" You know - a right mess, so I was trapped. It was an experience like in a movie, an earthquake but I was not in danger, so okay, I listened and then I heard this R'n'B tune which sounded quite good; 'I Must Return'. A guy was singing the base demo for it - just for the musicians to understand what was happening with the lead vocal. And they said, "You should sing this." I hadn't sung in English for years, and I liked it and then he said "Okay I'll set up a session for you and I'll call you." It was six in the morning, so I left and they were still working... crazy. They had the studio for three or four days at a very cheap price.
Then three weeks later I had a call from Christian on my answering machine that said "Will you be ready to come for a session next Wednesday?" I said that I could. It was like ten o'clock in the evening, and they were late, of course. At two o'clock I said, "let me hear the tune again", because I did not have a tape, it was a mess as usual. I learned the lyrics and everything and then at three o'clock I tried the first take, just once through with many mistakes. So I said, "it's not too bad, but I want to do it again". We made a second take without erasing time first one. Then it was 4 or 5am, so I said "Okay I'll take a tape of it and I'll work on it and you can call me back when the next session is fixed up and I'll be ready, I'll do it perfectly, I'll improvise if you want." Two takes and then after that no news at all, until I received the record six months later. So what you hear is my first two attempts. So he made a choice between those two takes. I made mistakes like it's "the night we died" and I sang "the night when we died", which doesn't sound right in English, but I made that mistake on the second take and I didn't do it on the first. But they chose that part, and it was done (Klaus sings) "The night we died, the night when we died". There was another, I don't remember the lyrics but it was bear something and on the tape it sounds like beer and it's there on the record forever. Because of this mess! It was a nice experience, but it confirmed that I wasn't able to work seriously with Christian any more - in the way it was organised. But I really appreciate the way he keeps his things together, having three bands. It's still a mess I know.PM: But he survives.
KB: Yeah, and that's the way he is, but again I can't work like that any more. And he does not need me, I mean if he needs me then he needs Janik too. But now it's not MAGMA any more, it's Christian. If I go to see Les Voix de Magma, and Christian is not there, I'm not interested. If he appears, there is something happening - even if it's the worst - there is something strong. I'm interested as a spectator. And I'm still ready as a musician to be involved in it, but punctually. If Janik decided, like three years ago, to reform a sporadic Magma just for a tour and a record, I'm ready. Even though I know we will have problems, because we had the Mekanïk tour in 1990. One night I didn't have a room reserved, so at three in the morning I had to look for a hotel. And I wasn't paid until three months afterwards. Things like that are ridiculous. I didn't ask for the money, I asked for respect.
PM: How did that 1990 tour come about? Did he just phone you up one day?
KB: It was like ten years after the Retrospektïw, ten years after I left the band, so I said "Okay, how many?" and he said "Five concerts, three days of rehearsal and you know 'Mekanïk' by heart so it will be okay." And La Cigale (22-2-90) was fabulous. I was touched; my heart was broken. Afterwards we were in tears, it was very nice. But then concert after concert, the lack of respect and the organisation was useless. You know, once again the boiling water. I said "For sure it's going to be a problem if you don't reserve the... " and he said "Don't worry, there's someone working on it." You know, but I'm not Christian; so these guys work for Christian they don't work for me, so I decided after five gigs not to continue. Like in December, Christian rang me and he said "We are going to have more and more concerts" I said "No, I won't do that, I tell you." So you understand I'm strong enough to make the balance between things, but it was too much and he was upset. But I said, "the next time I perform 'Mekanïk', it's going to be a MAGMA, not this band of musicians and this organisation." I was a guest - but not a real guest, I was not invited you know. So I'm not really happy about it and I know the audience was terrific. But also the problem was that they called it a Magma concert, but it was not a MAGMA concert, it was Christian Vander, it was just 'Mekanïk Kommandöh' with the Offering band and the Offering concert and the Trio concert too. But at the time Offering were terrible, especially in Elancourt where it was too long. Now it's okay, some of the tunes are very nice. But at that time it was a long improvisation. So all the things together made me worried about the future of this formula.
PM: But even with these problems, if he said "Klaus, come back"...
KB: I won't come back, I'll be available for special events but I won't come back. I'm not available, for the reasons I've mentioned.
PM: Suppose there was a twenty-fifth anniversary concert this year?
KB: I'll be there; I'm still ready. I love this music; I love the guy. You know there is nothing forever. You can't say I'll never do that again. But I'm sure I won't be the leader of the band as I was, I mean organiser, accountant and everything, and technician as well. I was doing everything, even the drawings - I loved it but I had to redo everything that was not initially done by me. It was too much, I was organising the rehearsal time, the travel, the tours. Even with managers I had to organise it.
PM: Looking at your book project, I can see you even paid the musicians salaries.
KB: Yes I was the accountant, I even paid Giorgio sometimes.
PM: Let's talk about PAGA GROUP. What are the chances of Paga coming to the UK for a tour?
KB: We have concerts in '94 and we are supposed to have a tour and another record next year. But it's up to you whether we can come to England, because it is already hard to organise rehearsals and tours in France. Concerts are okay because we can play from time to time. That's the main problem; it's a full circle. If we're not available we cannot rehearse or play. But if we don't play, we can't be available because we have to do other things. If we do other things, we are not going to be available for the band. And also the money is a problem, we have spent a lot of money on this band and we need more money. It takes time to get the money and this time is not used for the band. It's a full circle.
PM: I have a video of your first concert together at the New Morning, do you think Bernard would consider releasing an official video? Since there is a worldwide audience, who may not have a chance to see this line-up.
KB: It's an obvious project if we want to prepare for trips abroad, even as close as the UK. So we have to prepare this, maybe we have to wait for the next album when we have a big company working on it. But this type of music is out-of-time and then we arrive in a country where nobody knows about us... Even in France we are playing in places organised by our fans, so even here we do not know when and where we are rehearsing until two days before. We should not think too much about it. I think we have to act. The next concerts may give an answer to that question.
The professional video of our first two concerts at the New Morning was with the first band, without Eric and Francois. So it's not a good indication of what we are doing now. We have to make another one, but things happen in the meantime. And music is coming out. You know, it reminds me of when we put out each of Magma's records; the fans were disappointed. "This is not Magma music" - you know, 'Magma 2'. And then "Oh, there's no more guitar, it's not Magma" or "There's no horns, it's not Magma." "Oh, Janik Top is not Francis Moze, it's ridiculous, it's not Magma!" (laughs). And then "The second Paga album is not Paga", for them. But for me it's the same, it just sounds different.PM: Yes, every album, whether it be Magma or Paga, each record is very different from the last one, but the spirit of the music is the same.
KB: I think so, but music is not material, spirit is even less material than music. Understand how the architects have conceived the building. You don't have a good idea of the picture of it. Even if you live in it, you can understand things from the surface. But the spirit; the mind; the conceptions? Even if you look at a map, or plan or sketches you just have an image of it. And music sometimes is just the image of the spirit that is behind it, giving life to it. You know, it's like the difference between a real woman (with blood, bones and skin) and a blow-up doll. If you look at them, they look alive but when you touch a woman you know there is life in her. But if you stick a pin in the doll it bursts and then there is no structure, no tension, no life, nothing more than the skin. And the skin of music is part of the music, but it's not at all a good image of what is inside, which is more than blood and bones. So the spirit is the same, but if there is no image for the spirit you cannot say, "This is the spirit." What is the spirit? You can't explain with words. That's why we're playing music, because the magic, you know the spiritual part of it is inexplicable.
PM: It seems to me that this spirit comes through more in concert than it does on record.
KB: It shouldn't.
PM: It's partly the visual aspect, but the albums seem slightly more sterile than even concert tapes.
KB: Yes, because there is also a Time factor, and also the Audience factor which is very important for the musicians. There is also the Trance factor. Because the way we used to record for twenty years is not wrong, but it is so different from the live conception of playing music. The time is destroyed and even the natural balance of playing together is different, so that means we have to discover. We are like explorers in a native jungle. It is marvellous, it's beautiful, and we have to find a clear place and then meet together and live with one another. That's the place for concerts. But we have to look for this place, we can't live just playing in front of people, we have to mark things (Klaus raps on the table). We improvise and then we keep the things we like, we make a choice. But to make a choice we have to keep the things, not to let it go always too far. A musician if he is too generous will die poor. He will not die poor and old; he is dying right away! So he has to share things, not to give everything. That is why we have to write it down. That's the main difference. But the magic could be behind the surface of the message in the record. The same. The spirit is there too, even if the approach is different.
PM: Why are the lyrics for Paga's songs in English?
KB: Why not? There is nothing fixed about it, we tried two songs in French for the last album. We were ready to do so without any questions about "Oh it's not good to sing in French." But I don't know, either the quality of the lyrics or the swing of the lyrics. It is possible to sing and swing in French. So either it's the voice or me. We encountered a mass of problems, so it was not possible. Carol Rowley wrote English lyrics (used on the record) for a tune originally written in French by Ronnie Bird that was eventually not "acceptable" in French. She did it in a hurry, and it was okay. It's 'Coup de Blues'. By the way, she lives in London and is very active in the music business. Maybe we have to work again on this concept, but as I say it is not fixed. But, it is not a commercial decision. If it sounds good and it's also good for export, okay. But if we sing in French and if it's good, okay. If it is not good for export, it will still be okay. Bernard also had a Japanese song on the first album, so it's not a fixation or a blocked concept. It's open.
PM: Speaking of Japan, there seems to be a growing market over there for this music.
KB: Yeah, we are selling more of Paga's records in Japan than anywhere, and I'm sorry to say this, but if we have to leave France for an experience in the real sense, I think we should go to Japan. We have good contacts there. Bernard just came back from Japan and King Records are ready to work on the next album and distribute the first three (the two with the band and the solo). You know the Japanese magazine Marquee? They are crazy! I just met the guy like I met you and they worked a lot. They made mistakes but you know they worked hard, which is great.
PM: Apart from Marquee magazine, they have four or five bands who are playing Zeuhl music now, like HAPPY FAMILY and RUINS.
KB: Oh yeah? I don't know these bands. When I was in Japan I was curious, so I went to the clubs, concerts and I was invited to the Yamaha schools too. But what I saw did not interest me at all. I'm surprised that you say there are four or five bands like this.
PM: Maybe they like this music because it is so different in style to the traditional stuff?
KB: I suppose it could happen anywhere in the world, even in the States or Russia. I know we have fans in the USSR but it is so difficult for them. I know there are bands in Germany and even in England, but their situation is so different, and also they have the power. And it is so far from Europe, it's new and also underground, so they keep it as their secret band; a precious unknown underground - it's a cult. Which is okay, but it only leaves room for five bands. A New Wave should have space for millions of musicians. Which is not the case, the music situation is terrible. It's not just a question of making a choice of what to hear, we can't make any choices now, and we have to look for things like traditional music. That is why I'm going to South America or Africa. Because it is my food, I don't like this burger they are giving everybody, so l'm leaving. I play in a percussion ensemble every year in Rio for the big carnival. I need it, instead of this out-of-tune music with no spirit. It's a really terrible era for music; it never was really good but... I don't mean in France especially, France is terrible for music, of course, but it's not perfect anywhere.
PM: What do you do in-between concerts?
KB: I am a vocal coach, a vocal teacher. I was in Cannes last week for that and I played with Le Grand Blues Band while I was there. I do sessions, master classes and teaching as well. I'm writing my method and books and articles too. So that's why I travel for reports and shows in Amsterdam, New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles and so on. So iIt makes me a living, not comfortable but it's enough not to die.
PM: Do you review music?
KB: No, I don't review a lot, because there is no music, so I don't review. In the eighties, I wrote about UZEB and TOTO and Ry Cooder, but this is not new music. It's not research and findings, it's traditional, beautifully played, it's essential, but give me research too. Fresh air.
PM: You are interested in two completely different styles, the old R'n'B approach and this research, this experimentation.
KB: Well, when I say research I mean finding things, I'm interested in the way we research. But if there are no results, there is no interest. I like to find things.
PM: Moving forward to 1995, do you think the next Paga album will take a new direction?
KB: Yes, mainly because of the musicians and also I'm going to write some tunes and maybe Eric Séva will too. He is a beautiful musician; he is able to do some beautiful things. And I think François Laizeau is going to influence the band a lot. His playing is so different from the terrible drumming we hear these days.
PM: Have you seen Julie Vander's band HAMTAI / ZUKUNFT? The Magma cover band who play 'Köhntarkösz' etc.
KB: No, but it's great that they do that. Julie told me about them, but she is too shy, she remembers that I know her from long ago, but she won't speak to me direct, she's lovely.
PM: What do you think of the concept of a Magma cover band?
KB: I think it is a good thing for her and young guys to try and have experiences, it's very nice. And it's nice if they try to do their own thing. Like I do with Le Grand Blues Band. But giving too much time to trying to cover is wasting time.
PM: As I see it, ultimately they can't go anywhere unless they start writing their own songs. They could perhaps release one album of cover tunes - it's a dead end.
KB: Yeah, it is. But it could be nice if they find a strange or funny way to do it. Find French words or translations or jokes or maybe trying to imitate the look and sound so perfectly that it becomes an art. But to cover is always a little sad, it's never as good as the original. That's why Bernard was so strong, because he did not like to cover Janik. From an outside point of view it appears that they sound alike when they play Zeuhl Music, but it's easy for me to recognize the differences, even when they play the same parts. Same songs, even almost the same bass but they are so different. But I have heard two or three bands trying to cover Magma and playing exactly the same parts. It's a little bit like that with Les Voix de Magma, except it's nice. Yet most of my parts were improvised, I did them and they have taken everything. Sometimes I did it only once and they keep it, which is strange.
PM: Basically a cover band can only copy the version on the album, just one performance...
KB: Which in time is just one second, sometimes less than that, and they use it forever. It's okay if it's a record, but if it's a band and they rehearse it, I'm not so sure. Maybe it will become a tradition one day, it's not now. So it's not playing traditional music, it's covering. Just the surface.
PM: Throughout our conversation this afternoon, we have been referring to the draft notes of your book about Magma that you have with you today. What can you tell us about it, and how can we help?
KB: These guys came to a Paga concert with document and photograph lists, and said, "Which year are you interested in?" I told them 1975 and whoosh - they had everything. They were looking for specific information which I had sleeping in my diaries, waiting to be awoken. So I started to do so, it's quite a lot of work. I have one year, I think it's 1985, where I hope to find traces of information, but now it is blank. The idea is to write a book with these notes and a lot of pictures, because I shot a lot of photographs too. So with the pictures I can bring it all together. I'm sure we can make a beautiful, if not especially historical document. But sufficiently interesting for all kinds of readers, specialized or not. If we find the right kind of balance it would be great to get it published. So YOU (the Ork Alarm! readers) can help. First I am going to print it and spend a weekend at Christian's trying to check information and then with Bernard and Janik too. I have the main frame of the story and sometimes I'm very precise on some details that nobody else knows, because I was responsible from the inside. I think it would be a couple of years before it could be published, but it might be ready before the end of this year.
PM: You have a passion for collecting musical instruments and sound equipment, which will lead to exhibitions at your museum in Alfortville. It seems unusual that you collect these things; guitars and microphones etc, but not records. Do you just prefer memories of music?
KB: No, I have a lot of records, but I don't collect them. Because I can't do everything at the same time, it costs a lot of money. So I have all the Coltrane and Miles Davis records and a lot of classical - Bartok, Stravinsky and the French school - but I'm not a collector in the sense that I look for "the blue one" or "the American issue". Some friends of mine are like that. I prefer to have a CD if I want to listen to music.
PM: Who is your favourite vocalist?
KB: Oh! Frank Sinatra.
PM: And finally, Female singer?
KB: Sarah Vaughan, I think. Maybe also Billie Holiday and Aretha Franklin. Now I'm rediscovering Nat King Cole, I don't like very much of the new era. Frank Sinatra's phrasing is special, but I don't listen specifically to singers; I listen to bass players, drummers, orchestras and music. But I don't see any current French singers I like, except maybe Maurane, she is very nice. She sings in tune, she swings, the music is not so good but she sings perfectly. She is the best by far. But Frank Sinatra is the master, for many things; singing in tune, tone, timbre even, swing, and the spirit. Because the spirit behind this is so strong, I don't care if they say he is a Mafioso or whatever. And very unknown people that I like very much; Donny Hathaway was a master, Sam Cook, Otis Redding, James Brown... Sting is a very nice musician, but the master is Frank Sinatra.
PM: Okay Klaus, now lets start again. What have you got in your computer for June 1950? ... (laughs).